【键盘侠】字母哥尚且年轻 大家对其是否缺乏耐心？

[serious] Giannis is only 25. Why is everyone so impatient with him winning?

字母哥才25岁。为啥大家不能对他的成功多一点耐心呢？

LeBron won his 1st at 27 with the Heat

Kawhi at 28 (he was the main man in Toronto, Spurs he was a role player)

KD was 28 with the Warriors

Dirk was 32 when he won in Dallas

MJ was 28 when he won his 1st ring

KG was 31 when he won in Boston

AD literally just won with LeBron at 27

Hakeem was 32 when he won his 1st in Houston

詹姆斯27岁才在热火拿到个人第一个冠军，小卡是28岁（当时在多伦多是王牌球星，在马刺那会儿还算角色球员），阿杜28岁在勇士夺冠，德克32岁在达拉斯夺冠，乔丹28岁才首次拿到冠军，加内特31岁才在波士顿夺冠，27岁的戴维斯刚刚随詹姆斯夺冠。

Like maybe it's just me but he still has yet to reach his prime but he's getting lambasted for not winning a ring at this point.

If he's already won 2x MVP, and he's only 25- he's going to get better so I don't know what the rush is to win if he's so young. Maybe we put expectations too high for him?

But who's to blame for that? The media? The fans? Everyone?

或许只有我这么认为吧，但他仍然还没到巅峰呢，可他已经因为现阶段还未夺冠而被口水淹没了。

既然他已经MVP两连且仅仅才25岁，那他以后肯定会更强的，所以我不知道为啥要急着逼他夺冠。或许咱们对他的期望过高了？

可是这要怪谁呢？媒体？球迷？所有人？

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[–]shanmustafa 1869 指標 13小時前

it's because he's a 2 time MVP and in the playoffs he's been underwhelming

因为他拿了两个MVP，但是在季后赛一直是差强人意。

[–]Lakers Paranoides 18 指標 8小時前

Yes the issue is not him “not winning”. The issue is he is not even close to “being close”. He is just getting eliminated before taken into consideration.

湖人球迷：是的，关键不在于他“没有夺冠”。而是他连“接近成功”都差得老远。还没正经聊到他呢，他就被淘汰了。

[–]Tantle18 7 指標 4小時前

Most overrated mvp of all time. I said it!

史上最被高估的MVP。我说的！

[–][PHI] Joel Embiid lardbiscuits 15 指標 13小時前

And because everyone knows when he wins it won't be in Milwaukee

76人球迷：而且人人都知道，他夺冠那天，早不在雄鹿了。

[–]Bulls Dunlocke 871 指標 13小時前

I think the bigger thing is he's had a good coach and supporting cast with no dynasties blocking him. That tends to be the barrier for other greats.

公牛球迷：我觉得更值得诟病的是，他有个好教练和一套不错的辅助阵容，并且又没有王朝球队拦路。但这些因素都是其他顶级球星成功路上的绊脚石。

[–][CHI] Jimmy Butler Chickensandcoke 168 指標 10小時前

His coach is a good regular season coach but has shown two years in a row unwillingness to adjust. Giannis definitely has blame for being pretty one dimensional in the playoffs but a coach like Nick Nurse could really help IMO. Not saying he should go to the raptors just the first example that came to mind.

公牛球迷：他的主教练是个出色的常规赛教练，但是连着两个赛季都不愿意变通。字母哥在季后赛打得那么单调，他自身肯定是有责任的，但我觉得要是有纳斯那种教练的话，那真心能帮到字母哥。倒不是说他应该去猛龙，只是我首先就想到了纳斯。

[–][MIL] Bill Zopf FKJVMMP 73 指標 9小時前

Any coach willing to take the ball out of his hands and let him get to his spots off-ball would help immensely. It’s why he didn’t falter in the playoffs prior to Bud coming in, he wasn’t expected to be making all the plays all the time. Even this year you saw it against the Heat, that brief time he played in game 4 he spent a ton of time cutting and rolling to the rim instead of trying to take on zones by himself, and he was killing it.

Should have been doing that from the start, doesn’t take a basketball genius to know that trying to get a bad shooter to handle the ball all the time against a disciplined zone is a dumb idea.

雄鹿球迷：不管是哪个教练，只要他愿意减少字母哥的球权，使其通过无球卡住身位，那就能大大改善球队的窘境。所以在布登执教雄鹿之前，字母哥在季后赛还不至于拉胯，当时教练就没指望让他全程掌控球队所有的进攻。这种效果甚至在今年打热火那轮系列赛里也看得到，G4那么一小段时间里，字母哥有大量的切入和顺下攻筐，而不是头铁单打破联防，这段时间他就打得非常痛快。

应该从一开始就这么打的。面对着对方执行到位的区域联防，你让一个投射很差的人一直控球，傻子都知道这种思路很蠢。

[–]perfectstubble 8 指標 4小時前

You need a solid ball handler and distributed for that, which the Bucks didn’t.

你们需要一个靠谱的持球人来支配球，这是雄鹿所没有的。

[–][MIL] Bill Zopf FKJVMMP 12 指標 4小時前

We certainly don’t have any great ball handlers, which is why I’m in favour of a CP3 trade, but Middleton’s skill set works extremely well with Giannis off-ball. He doesn’t really make any advanced reads and he’s not especially willing so he’s not great as a playmaker, but he is extremely accurate and he runs the pick and roll well because he’s such a pull up threat and a good lob passer, which is perfect for Giannis. The Middleton/Giannis pick and roll has always been a weapon for us, Bud’s just never used it enough.

Then we have the lesser options like George Hill, or even DiVincenzo who’s developed a nice two man game with Giannis. It’s not ideal or as good as having an elite playmaker but it’s a lot better than what we have been doing.

雄鹿球迷：我们确实是一个强力持球人都没有，所以我倾向于交易得到保罗啊，不过米德尔顿的技术特点和无球时的字母哥非常搭。米德尔顿真的是没有任何预判，传球意愿又不是那么强烈，所以他组织进攻时效果平平，但他很准，而且擅长打挡拆，因为他的急停跳投很有威胁，同时又很会喂空接，完美适配字母哥。他俩的挡拆打法向来都是我们的武器之一，但布登就是不怎么用。

再不济也还有焦志喜吧，或者是已经和字母哥打出些默契的迪文琴佐，效果虽说比不上那些顶级组织者，但也比我们在季后赛的惯用套路强多了。

[–]Warriors clewgeal 29 指標 12小時前

Bud was not a good coach this year. And non of his teammates turned up in the playoffs.

勇士球迷：布登这赛季真不咋地。而且到了季后赛，字母哥没有一个队友能站出来。

[–]Huckleberry_Sin 112 指標 11小時前

Yeah neither did he lol. Show him a wall and he’s useless in must score situations

那是，他自己也是啊，哈哈哈。在必须要得分的时刻，往他前面站一堵人墙，他就废了。

[–]Fuzzy ButtScratcher 7 指標 8小時前

The general opinion of the quality of his supporting cast changes every day on this sub.

One day it’s “kris sucks and they need to trade him. Bledsoe is terrible”

The next it’s “there’s no reason Giannis isn’t winning titles. He has the team around him”

在这个论坛上，大家对于字母哥辅助阵容实力的主流认知总是在变。

今天还是“米德尔顿菜鸡，雄鹿必须送走他。布莱德索太水了”。

明天就成了“字母哥不夺冠简直无法解释，他身边的队友都很强啊”。

[–]Phenomenal Sanchez 177 指標 12小時前

His supporting cast is just that, good. It's set up to win 60+ games in the regular season without much effort, but when it's time to shrink rotations and buckle down they don't really have the personnel (or the coach, for that matter) for it. Aside from LeBron, other all-time greats needed All-NBA talent (or at the very least, people who had "been there" before) alongside them before they started making the Finals. Middleton is on the fringes of being an All-NBA 3rd team (with this being the only year he's played at this level), but that's different from having someone like Pippen, Kobe, Penny, Wade, etc.

他的辅助阵容也就那样。常规赛可以不大费力地拿到60+胜场，可是到了需要压缩轮换阵容全力一搏的时候，他们真没那个人员配置。除了詹姆斯，其他历史级超巨都需要一个最佳阵级别的天才球星做帮手，才能冲击总决赛。米德尔顿大概是最佳阵第三阵（只有一个赛季打出过这种水准）的边缘人物，但他和皮蓬、科比、小哈达威、韦德这些帮手是没得比的。

[–]Lie_Programmatically 17 指標 8小時前

I would say even Lebron needs All-nba talent, one player in modern nba not enough

我觉得就连詹姆斯也需要最佳阵级别的天才队友，现代NBA光靠一个人是不够的。

[–]Bulls cute2701 16 指標 7小時前

when was it enough? there was never an nba champion since the 60's that didn't have at least two players that were all-nba in their careers. ok, some of them maybe became all-nba years later (sam cassell for the 94 rockets who was all-nba for the first time in 2004.) or were past their prime (shawn marion for the '11 mavs) but they either had potential or experience. but those kind of teams are rare, most of the champion teams have at least two elite guys in their prime with the exception of 04' pistons who just had a slew of really really great players, even though none of them is probably in the top 60 of all time (maybe even in top 100).

公牛球迷：难道有过一个球星管够的年代吗？自打60年代之后，要想夺冠，队里至少要有两个在各自生涯都进过最佳阵的球员。这么说吧，有些人或许是在夺冠之后几年才进入最佳阵（萨姆-卡塞尔94年在火箭夺冠，直到04年才首次进入最佳阵），要不就是夺冠时巅峰已过（11年随小牛夺冠的马里昂），但他们要么有潜力，要么有经验。不过这种球队也是挺少见的，大多数冠军球队至少配备了两名巅峰期顶级球星，除了集齐一大堆猛将的04活塞，不过那帮人或许都进不了历史前60（甚至是前100）。

[–]CountlessTime 14 指標 5小時前

LeBron carried 07 trash Cavs to the Finals. He needs good cast to get championship. But LeBron can CARRY most of the trash to the finals. That’s the big diff

詹姆斯就把07年那支垃圾骑士带进了总决赛啊。他确实需要好帮手才能夺冠，但詹姆斯可以把大多数垃圾阵容扛进总决赛。这差距可太大咯。

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[–]Mavericks throwaway25813 271 指標 13小時前

You're right that people are impatient but at the same time pretty much everyone you listed was also criticized for not winning earlier than they did.

People are just impatient the second a player ascends into that elite status. Giannis is a DPOY/MVP caliber player who has commanded the top seed for 2 years. People want to see that translate into a championship. Those are the breaks.

独行侠球迷：楼主说得没错，大家都缺乏耐心，不过呢，楼主所列出来的那些球星早期没有夺冠的时候，基本都没少被喷啊。

只要球员步入顶级行列，大家就立马没耐心了。字母哥可是DPOY和MVP级别的啊，过往两个赛季都是头号种子的话事人。所以大家都想看到这些光环兑现成冠军啊，这才算突破。

[–][LAL] Vlade Divac weeyummy1 86 指標 9小時前

Not even a championship just a deep run. If he lost in 7 to the Celtics he wouldn't get this much shit

湖人球迷：哪怕没夺冠也行，你至少在季后赛走得远一些吧。如果他是抢七输给凯尔特人，那也不至于被喷得这么惨啊

[–]Heat ladwagon 58 指標 9小時前

...he lost in 6 to the champs last year

热火球迷：他去年G6才输给最后的冠军……

[–]Bulls FUCK_MICHAEL 84 指標 8小時前

yeah...and he didn't get clowned for it. This year he got swept when expectations were even higher so people are naturally gonna be surprised and want to talk about it

公牛球迷：是啊……所以当时没人嘲笑他啊。今年外界的期望更高了，结果他被横扫了，那大家自然会很吃惊啊，难免要说道说道。

[–]Smekledorf1996 478 指標 13小時前

The ring isn’t the issue

It’s him being compared to greats, getting awarded 2X MVPs, and yet he struggles against good teams in the playoffs

He has high expectations to compete, and he hasn’t met them yet

他被喷就不是因为没夺冠。

而是相比起其他伟大球员，他都MVP两连了，可到了季后赛碰上强队就拉胯。

大家对他期望很高，但他目前还达不到预期。

[–]Nugur 81 指標 11小時前

Lebron at this stage has been to the finals. Giannis Has only one ecf under his belt

詹姆斯这会儿已经打总决赛了，字母哥只有一次东决体验。

[–]Hornets Shotclockcheese21 104 指標 11小時前

I don't really compare him to LeBron because that's just unfair. I think the best comparison would be KG. LBJ is just too much to live up too.

黄蜂球迷：我还真不会拿他和詹姆斯比，因为这不公平。我认为应该拿加内特和字母哥比，和詹姆斯比，那就太高看字母哥了。

[–]NBA cabose12 32 指標 9小時前

I don't know if KG is a good comparison either though. I wasn't watching basketball then, but just going off of wins/losses, the best season KG had before 25 was 50 wins. Meanwhile, Giannis has had back/back 1 seeds and two 70%+ win rate seasons, two mvps, a dpoy, etc. I can't imagine the media pressure on KG was the same as Giannis, even if you ignore different social media eras

可我不知道拿他和加内特比是否合适。虽说当时我还没看篮球吧，但你要说胜负场次的话，加内特25岁之前胜场最高的赛季是50胜，而字母哥已经连续两个赛季胜场第一，且有两个胜率超过70%的赛季，拿下两个MVP和一个DOPY。哪怕你忽视掉不同年代的社交媒体环境区别，加内特都不可能经受和字母哥一样大的媒体压力。

[–]World Twisting 20 指標 9小時前

In terms of calibre of player he's similar to prime KG in minnesota.

Both led their teams to 1 conference finals

就个人实力而言，字母哥和森林狼的那个巅峰加内特很相似。两人都带领各自的球队进过一次分区决赛。

[–][ORL] Aaron Gordon ninety4kid 24 指標 9小時前*

Dwight and KD led their teams to the finals before age 25. In recent history aside from Duncan and Wade nobody else has led their team to the title their first go in the finals, *under 25. Shaq, Bron, Dwight, KD all fell short at first.

魔术球迷：25岁以前，霍华德和杜兰特都带队进过总决赛。除了邓肯和韦德，近年来没有球星25岁之前首次进入总决赛就能夺冠。奥尼尔、詹姆斯、霍华德和杜兰特第一次总决赛都功亏一篑。

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[–]TayOs1998 3 指標 12小時前

Because they want him off the Bucks, literally all those players besides MJ, Dirk, and Hakeem had to switch teams to win.

因为他们希望他离开雄鹿，除了乔丹、诺维茨基和奥拉朱旺，几乎所有伟大球员都是在换队过后夺冠的。

[–]ruinatex 41 指標 9小時前

To me the problem with Giannis is that he made Harden look like a prophet. In the regular season he runs around and dunks on people, but on the playoffs when he actually needs a set of skills on offense, (post game, midrange, 3-PT, anything really) he just doesn't have it.

His set of skills are just underwhelming, yeah he's super athletic and is a freak, but he can't shoot and can't post up, that's a really bad combination in the postseason.

我觉得字母哥的问题在于，他让哈登成了先知。在常规赛，他可以横冲直撞之后在对手投上暴扣。但是到了季后赛，他却不具备行之有效的进攻技能包（低位背身、中距离跳投、三分）。

他现在的技能包乏善可陈，没错，他运动能力暴强，而且又很猛，但他没有投射和背身，这种技能组合放到季后赛真心不行。

[–]Rockets Mikegetscalls 30 指標 8小時前

It’s cause people think of Gianna has a big wing when his game is more of an athletic center. What he needs a guy that can draw attention away from. Shaq even had Kobe and Penny. Middleton is neither of them and not close.

火箭球迷：字母哥的风格明明是个冲击型五号位，但很多人却觉得他是个强力侧翼。他需要的是一个可以吸引火力的队友。就连奥尼尔身边都有过科比和哈达威，而米德尔顿啥也不是，差得太多了。

[–]Wizards livefreeordont 13 指標 6小時前

Middleton is a very solid player though. Bucks should be able to make a finals with those two. Plus they have a really deep team in general. Giannis just takes a huge step back in production during the playoffs

奇才球迷：可米德尔顿还是很不错的啊。雄鹿凭借着他和字母哥应该是可以杀进总决赛的。而且雄鹿大体而言阵容还是很有深度的。只是字母哥到了季后赛，个人输出就会跌

[–]Nets Kevin_Durant_Burner 36 指標 9小時前

Lmao, I mean Harden is exactly the same as Giannis though. Just like Giannis, Harden has a marked drop in performance every post-season and has never lead a team to the finals. Furthermore, he's had way more chances than Giannis and no success.

篮网球迷：哈哈哈哈，可我觉得哈登也一样啊。如同字母哥一样，哈登每每到了季后赛，个人表现就会显著下滑，而且也从未带队进过季后赛。何况他的机会远多于字母哥，却依旧一无所成。

[–]testestestestest555 63 指標 8小時前

Harden has taken his team to the conference finals before in a much more difficult west.

哈登已经带队进过分区决赛好嘛，而且还是在竞争大得多的西部。

[–]NBA bigbeau 84 指標 11小時前

i agree. It has nothing to do with the ring. He plays bad in the playoffs. He goes from looking like a hurricane of unstoppable force to someone who can't even be on the court versus the right defenses.

If he averaged his regular season numbers or slightly less, no one would say anything about the upset in the playoffs.

我同意。字母哥被喷就是因为季后赛拉胯，而不是没夺冠。平时猛起来像一股飓风般不可阻挡，到了关键时刻碰到强悍防守，甚至都没法上场。

但凡他在季后赛的数据能持平或者稍逊于常规赛，那就不会有人说三道四。

[–]Clippers Med_Tosby 72 指標 9小時前

Would you not call the following numbers "slightly less"?

19-20 Regular Season: 29.5/13.6/5.6 on 55/30/66 in 30.4 mpg

19-20 Playoffs: 26.7/13.8/5.7 on 56/32/58 in 30.8 mpg

He was clearly worse in the playoffs and needs to find a way to elevate his game in the postseason. But he was not BAD or someone who can't even be on the court. Chill with the hyperbole.

快船球迷：下面这些数据难道不是“稍逊于”吗？

19/20赛季常规赛场均：29.5分13.6板5.6助，出场30.4分钟，三项命中率分别为55%、30%和66%；

19/20赛季季后赛场均：26.7分13.8板5.7助，出场30.8分钟，三项命中率分别为56%、32%和58%。

他确实是季后赛更菜，也必须要设法提升在季后赛的表现。但他还没菜到“没法上场”的地步。别瞎黑。

[–]Lockheed97 8 指標 7小時前

Stats don't lie but whenever I watched his playoff games this season, I always wonder how he got those stats because he doesn't look like the Giannis I watched in the regular season. Something is definitely off with him that the stats don't show.

虽说数据不会说谎，但这赛季季后赛我只要看他打球，就纳闷他这些数据是怎么来的，因为他看起来不像那个常规赛的字母哥。有些东西肯定是数据没法体现的。

[–]Clippers Med_Tosby 18 指標 7小時前

Agreed. The surface level stats obscure the fact that he was not nearly as effective or dominant in the postseason.

快船球迷：认同。表面的数据隐藏了他在季后赛效率和统治力下滑的事实。

[–]Lakers ThatguyingtonVersion 2 指標 5小時前

Kawhi Leonard was Finals MVP in his first championship in 2014, how are you going to call him a "role player"

湖人球迷：小卡14年第一次夺冠那会儿可是FMVP啊，楼主居然说他是“角色球员”……

[–]Bingeon444 16 指標 10小時前

Well, he was a role player that year. Just like Iggy was in 2015.

这么说吧，他那会儿还真是。就好比15年的一哥。

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[–]Spurs Thehelloman0 202 指標 13小時前

He just won back to back MVPs and is clearly not the best player in the league and nearly got swept by the 5 seed with his team having the best record in the NBA and him basically refusing to shoot from outside the paint and choking on free throws. He deserves criticism.

马刺球迷：他这不才MVP两连嘛，显然还不是联盟最强者，所在球队拿下联盟最佳战绩又差点被五号种子横扫，自己又老是排斥在禁区之外出手，且罚球辣眼睛，活该被批评。

[–][MIA] Mike Miller N1COLAS13 4 指標 11小時前

He does deserve criticism, but he's clearly not the finished product yet. It's not really his fault people put championship expectations on him already. Reaching the Finals with the Bucks is hard, especially with that supporting cast.

He needs to work on his jumpshot, passing, and post-up game before he even thinks about winning a ring, and he has the time. LeBron didn't win until he was 28, and he's potentially the GOAT

热火球迷：确实是活该，但他明显还不是个完成品啊。大家早早就对他给予冠军的期望，这真不是他的错。带领雄鹿打进总决赛是很难的，尤其是这种辅助阵容。

他得多加练习跳投、传球和背身技巧，然后再去考虑争冠的事儿，他还有时间。詹姆斯这种史上最佳的候选人都是等到28岁才夺冠的啊。

[–]NBA LikeABreath 22 指標 11小時前

Him crowning himself as they beat the Lakers this year shows that he thinks he's ready for those championship expectations.

他这赛季击败湖人过后给自己戴王冠的操作已经表明，他觉得自己已经足以应对大家的冠军期望了。

[–][BOS] Terry Rozier King_Of_Pants 2 指標 13小時前

It's not about Giannis, it's about Milwaukee.

Giannis is young, Milwaukee is one of the oldest teams in the league.

These past two seasons are potentially as good as Milwaukee will ever be. If the team wasn't good enough then that team may never be good enough.

That's why people are speculating Giannis will leave, because he can't sit around and expect this team to get better, but he can leave to join a better situation.

凯尔特人球迷：关键不在于字母哥，而是雄鹿。

字母哥还年轻，但雄鹿确实联盟最老迈的队伍之一。过往两个赛季的雄鹿差不多已经发挥到极致了，如果这还不够的话，那也许永远都不够了。

所以大家才猜测字母哥会离队，因为他没法就那么傻坐着指望球队变强，但他可以加盟一支更强的队伍。

[–]Kings TheFoxKing5 56 指標 13小時前

One thing I keep going back to with Giannis is just how awful his jumper is, and that he can't get to the next level in the playoffs if he doesn't resolve it. Now LeBron is well known for improving his shooting over the years. I bring that up because that's often the comparison.

LeBron never had terrible form. He just needed slight corrections and practice. In fact, in his rookie season he took 57% of his shots from midrange. He was not afraid to shoot and it was a large part of his game.

Giannis has abysmal form. He has a ridiculously slow release. I don't see him being able to completely change his form to become anything close to the shooting level that LeBron got to. I do think his ability to read defenses and the floor will get better, and he will be able to handle collapsing defenses better. But without the ability to consistently shoot, he'll always be dealing with a smaller floor. And that's tough in the playoffs.

国王球迷：关于字母哥，有一点始终让我无法回避：他的跳投得有多菜啊，要是这个没法解决，那他在季后赛就没法突破。而如今的詹姆斯则是出了名地不断在提升投射水平。我提起这些是因为他俩经常作比较。

詹姆斯的投篮手型向来都是可以的，当初他只是需要轻微的纠正和练习。实际上，他在处子赛季有57%的投篮是中距离，他敢于投篮，这是他的关键杀招。

字母哥的手型很辣眼睛。出手速度慢得离谱。我觉得他这个手型是没法完全改变到接近当初老詹那个投射水准了。不过我认为他阅读防守和场上形势的能力会变强，但是由于稳定投射的缺乏，他的比赛空间一直都会更小，这在季后赛是很难的。

[–]Magic Brod24 3 指標 5小時前

Dwight Howard led a team to the finals during his age 23 season and was past his prime at 27.

Mcgrady led the league in scoring at 23 and his last elite year was at 27.

Blake Griffin peaked at 24.

Deron Williams peaked at 27. Was no longer elite at 29.

Amar'e Stoudemire's peak was from 22 to 28. No longer elite at 29.

Lebron is timeless. Giannis playing another 12 years is not a foregone conclusion. He might only have 3 years left at his prime. Can't waste peak years of elite players.

魔术球迷：霍华德23岁那个赛季带队打进总决赛，27岁就过了巅峰；

麦迪23岁加冕得分王，27岁是他最后一个巅峰赛季；

格里芬24岁就进入巅峰期；德隆-威廉姆斯27岁进入巅峰，29岁就不复当年之勇了；小斯巅峰期是22到28岁，29岁就日薄西山了；詹姆斯不受时间限制。

但字母哥不一定还能再打12年啊。或许他的巅峰期只剩三年了。顶级球星的巅峰年龄经不起挥霍哦。

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来源：Reddit

编译：云长刮个痧